1. The Practical Aquaponics discussion forum has been in operation for the last 5 years...

    We have enjoyed giving this service free of charge however ongoing increasing financial costs of running this service is making it increasingly difficult. Up until now we have resisted advertising as a means of a revenue stream to help run this forum but it has become inevitable that extra revenue is required to run this forum.

    We have introduced a donate button to help offset the cost of running this forum. It is completely voluntary, but if you would like to donate, all donations would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks Murray..
    Dismiss Notice

Stop wasting your money and time

Discussion in 'General Aquaponics discussion - Aquaponics system ' started by luthier, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. adam.francis

    adam.francis New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    183
    Damn, you sound like a teenager! "I'm STARVING mom"

    when the 'occupy' movements are over and the real riots begin, have fun at the grocery store when there's nothing left... stoops :frustrated:
     
  2. trout

    trout New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,031
    I rather think if the riots begin and there's nothing left at the grocery
    store.

    1/ You will have no electricity therefore your AP system will stop unless you have some very expensive backup system.

    2/ Where are you going to buy your fish food from?

    cheers Lou
     
  3. adam.francis

    adam.francis New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    183

    hahaha... Your funny Lou... I love how thorough this forum is...

    but are you seriously being serious with me??

    i don't friggin' know man... we'll do it like my grandfather did it back in the old country...

    i'll use a bucket to fill the growbeds... and ahhh... get the old lady to stir the fish tank to aerate it.. LMFAO

    and for fish food???? ...... Jesus Lou... Ahhhhhh... well i guess they'll just have to settle for what i'm eating... dug up worms and grubs from the backyard.... AH HA!

    GOTCHA .... next question :p
     
  4. watercat

    watercat New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    32
    If 99% of all AP enjoy and get good results the 1% that don't are just retarded and hating life because they cant figure it out. Just move on and don't be a hater. I think the poisons they put on commercial foods is really helping the gene pool. So don't wash the foods your buying. I'm kidding of course, no really I am.

    If you get on a forum to tell AP people that its easier and cheaper to get food its like calling the Ferrari club and telling them its cheaper to ride the bus.
     
  5. RupertofOZ

    RupertofOZ New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    5,569
    If I had a ferrari.. I wouldn't be riding the bus... :D
     
  6. MattySEQ

    MattySEQ New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    495
    My pumps japanese $150 and 6000L I have roughly 3000Lph tank turn over so theres plenty of aeration but I do have a air pump is about 13w

    but even taking all that into account, for me aquaponics has given me somwhere to grow a little bit of produce and watch some fish which I have a passion for and most of all lets me grow soem herbs and a little bit of veg which I've tried to grow for the last 5 years in my garden to no avail because the soil is hopeless. for the past year I've been running chooks in my backyard which is helping a lot plus the aquaponics has helped when it rains heavily I sump some ap water in the backyard. Another pro whatever the cost is I rarely eat fish unless I've caught it myself and that costs me a lot more in fishing trips then aquaponics ever will :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
  7. Murray

    Murray Site Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    7,638
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Queensland
    City:
    Brisbane
    Aint that the truth. All the years I have been building boats...the money blokes spend on boats. If they worked it out each fish they bring home costs about $500.00 or more. But it is not about the money because if it was, then there would be very few recreational fishing boats.
     
  8. DaveOponic

    DaveOponic New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,206
    Watched a docco last night on depleting fish stocks. The world's oceans will be fished out by 2050. I won't be around then but I would like my grandchildren to know there are fish in the oceans. How will we feed the billions... Thank God for Tilapia and Aquaponics. If everyone in the world had an AP system there would be no starvation. Let's figure out how to run an AP system without pumps or by solar, wind, donkey or some other means. rich boy's hobby? I don't think so.
     
  9. RupertofOZ

    RupertofOZ New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    5,569
    Well I'm going to stop wasting my time....




    Reading this thread... I''m going to watch my AP system...
     
  10. Mr. Mik

    Mr. Mik New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    211
    Do believe that?

    Fish stocks are collapsing worldwide right now (or rather for some years already). Maybe 2050 is when we'll catch the VERY LAST fish.

    And the bulk of AP fish-food is made from those depleting fish stocks.....:confused:
     
  11. Murray

    Murray Site Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    7,638
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Queensland
    City:
    Brisbane
    Need to change our attitude to carp and tilapia. They will be easier to feed. Or maybe they will have to be grown to make pellets for the others
     
  12. trout

    trout New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,031
    Yes and I totally agree with that statement. I do it because I get great
    satisfaction from it and I enjoy building stuff and the science behind the
    system still has me beat but I'm working on it.

    But, this thread was started by Luthier who started the system because he
    was under the impression it was very economical, even though he had a creek running outside his backdoor.

    So, all I did was run a cost analysis of my system, using my figures so as
    to show the exact costing of running an AP system.

    Hopefully this will stop people from doing AP for the wrong reasons so they
    won't become disillusioned, waste their money and spend the rest of
    their time bad mouthing AP to anyone that will listen.

    cheers Lou
     
  13. miadeb

    miadeb Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Qld
    City:
    Hillview
    dirt work can be expensive

    It is interesting how people looking at the same thing can think so differently. The charge on this thread is that AP is both a waste of money and a waste of time. I came to AP because dirt work was looking like a waste of money and time if its output was to be further expanded.

    We bought the land we now live on back when silver perch were promoted for farm dams. Seemed like a good idea and we had a dam constructed. It did not hold water. Could treat it with more money thrown at it but the outcome is still doubtful. The last decade has been drier and the dam has filled once. Annual evaporation would drop levels back to dry to defeat the fish dream even if the leak was plugged. Tank based aquaculture was being investigated when Murray's kits were highlighted at a gardening club. Wanting fish we got one. So whilst in theory dirt work might produce fish, dam siting, size and climate are limiting. And the thing is expensive. Would have been cheaper to have started with Murray's kit.

    We have planted many things in dirt here. We have abandoned doing it with some plants. Our soil is heavy in clay and alkaline. Irrigation water is from a bore that contains carbonates sufficient to kill some plants. We could bring in soil treatments and install a desal plant to clean up the water but this is expensive. Running AP on rainwater is a less expensive way to produce some of the plants we want but otherwise might not have, such as lettuce. There may be cheaper options but when we are committed to having a system with fish why bother.

    Dirt work is time consuming. AP wastes less time. Sprinkle some lettuce seed onto a grow bed, come back and transplant (easy if you have opted for clay balls), then harvest. Everything else is taken care of. Try doing that in dirt in the same time. Leave some lettuce to seed, collect and start again.

    The economic argument is an interesting one. Apply it to other household products. Is a sink cheaper then a dish washer. Is a tub and clothes line cheaper than a washing machine and a dryer. There is a trade off, money spent in exchange for time saved. Managed for it, AP takes little time and that saving is the one I value. We produce increasing quantities of food. I estimate we did not spend some $50 a week in supermarkets over the decade 2000 to 2010. That released $25000 for spending on improvements to our systems. Murray's kit was affordable. Lettuce is in our supermarket at $2 each. I can produce enough of that alone to cover running costs, including fish feed.
     
  14. luthier

    luthier New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    21
    Interesting to see the debate still going here. In the mean time I've probably got a small apology to make. The vegies just didn't have enough nitrates but since I started mixing a bit of chook poo with water and giving the system a bit of that I have seen some health and rapid growth happening.
    I only have 13 yabbies at present and haven't had time to catch more for a few weeks. But I'm happy with them and I do not apologize for stating that they are far more hardy than fish. They eat vegie scraps which is a very nice thing.
    I have a slightly alkaline system but it is the same ph as the creek from whence I pump my water and is not bothering the yabbies one bit. In fact they appear to have grown since I introduced them.
    As well the yabbies seem to cope with the temps that my system goes through, whereas I think by now there'd be a whole bunch of expensive dead fingerlings floating about. I am interested in reducing maintenance which makes yabbies look like my solution. After having the thing operating for a couple of months though, I see the pump is almost due for a clean.
    I was accused of not even having a system, some time back, I don't care, I really do and I'm keeping it going out of interest. Zuchini and corn and tomato , basil and beetroot and capsicum all seem to like it. I have some of the same outside in the dirt to compare. I suspect the dirt tomatoes are going to win but will reserve judgement. Whereas basil and capsicum may win in the grow beds.
    As far as the electricity goes I'm waiting for the second bill before I am convinced. If it does turn out to be this pump [ which is a 6000litre per hour fountain pump] I may ask advice if anyone will still speak to me.
    I might just make up some of those solar panels that you can get in chip form and get a small inverter. Perhaps it will just run in the daytime. It has to be cheap and easy or it won't work for me. When I say easy, perhaps that's an exaggeration, as setting the whole system up wasn't a total walk in the park, but I will not justify spending thousands of bucks on this thing.
    Yes I still don't think it's really an economically viable thing, but it is so much fun isn't it?drinkanim
     
  15. RupertofOZ

    RupertofOZ New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    5,569
    Good to see you perservering Luthier.. and beginning to get some results..

    Keep in touch, especially with regards to the pump/electricity costs...
     
  16. Murray

    Murray Site Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    7,638
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Queensland
    City:
    Brisbane
    If only we could get rid of the pump !!! It is the weak link in AP that is for sure.

    I am always on the lookout for better pumps that do the job for less
     
  17. SolTun

    SolTun Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    285
  18. Murray

    Murray Site Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    7,638
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Queensland
    City:
    Brisbane
    We have a client out back of Windorah who has purchased two of our kits because he wants the veggies. He has a bore on his property right next to the homestead that has been putting out 200 K ltrs of water a day at 24 deg C since 1904 or something near that year.

    I keep at him to run a "Open Chanel" system for some extra fish. He could have some big tanks (even concrete ones) and have Barra or Jades and just divert a thousand ltrs an hour through the tanks. No pump, no heaters in winter, no worries about pH...... Just feed the fish.

    He has put some yellow belly into the bigger bore drains but no sign of them now. I reckon the birds will have had them.
     
  19. Grimgrak

    Grimgrak New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    71
    In a wicking bed system if you use only peeponics (urine) and no water is it possible to get nutrient lock out? Or must some water be used?
     
  20. RupertofOZ

    RupertofOZ New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    5,569
    Urine turns to urease... then to ammonia... which will become nitrates...

    But it wont provide your trace elements.... adding some seasol/maxicrop will though...
     

Share This Page