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New IBC setup

Discussion in 'Water Chemistry' started by Fishdood, Dec 25, 2011.

  1. Fishdood

    Fishdood Member

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    Hi all.
    I've just reached the point in my first AP setup of adding fish. Up to date I've built a system based on Murrays 3 bed chop 2 IBC plan. I used riverstone agregate as my medium, added plants first up and used water from my mature indoor FT to help cycle the sytem. I also put one large goldie in for a short time. It was about a month from turning on the power to adding 100 ish silvers 5 days ago.

    Firstly my ph is high. 8. The agregate has what seems to be some clay in it. Not much but it took a couple of weeks for the water to clear and some has settled in the sump and FT. I am assuming this is the cause. I plan to siphone off what I can and hope over time ph will drop. Water supply is from RW tank. It is about 6.4.

    Secondly I have had some fish losses. I expected some as out of 106 fingerlings 11 were DOA. A few others went down the return Doh! :frustrated: I've just now found another half dozen on the bottom of the FT.
    Having said this all others are feeding agressively excepting one or two that are only 12 - 15mm in length.

    Water temp is 26 today at the hottest part of the arvo. Drop to 20 - 22 O/noght.
    Ammonia is <.25
    Nitrite is 0
    Nitrate is 0

    Pics are in my album.
    I did plan to isolate fish in a basket but fingerlings are small fry! Some got out, so.............
    I have plans to add 3 more beds within the next few months and a shade / hot house.

    Any thoughts....random comments.......

    Paul
     
  2. benwalters

    benwalters Member

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    Hi Paul,
    I would think about salting fish tank to 1-2 parts per thousand
    your other parameters seem okay, except maybe PH

    (but i have had persistent high ph, about 7.6+ without major dramas and ive heard from others with the same situation)
    topping up with your tank water may do the job of bringing PH down

    i think it is good to resist changing too much , all at once
    the fact that most fish are active is a good sign
    good luck
    cheers ben

    P.S, i looked at your photos - great set up

    i noticed you have fish in basket/ so you are doing salting, have you got a air stone in basket? if not, i think it would be a good idea
    also i recommend over-planting seedlings in grow beds, this helps shade the gravel quicker,
    just my 2 cents worth..............
    ben
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2011
  3. MattySEQ

    MattySEQ New Member

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    I would be concerned a little if the water in the systems from tank wateris testing at 6.4ph and the same water is testing at 8ph after running thought the system to me that says your riverstone has some limestone and it may continue to buffer the ph. The major negative effects that would concern me if this is the case would be to the fish, above a ph of 7 ammonia is toxic to fish which can present issues with higher tempretures, nitrite is the next nasty which you can treat by salting the tank as ben said 1-2ppt which is 1 or 2kg per 1000L of water, you generally will experience a loss or two between travel and shock but most people who watch murrays dvds will know how to introduce fish to a system, so for all the people that don't buy his dvds :) for the system 100 fish is to many fish but you will find it'll be ok to a point everyone around the traps recommends about 30kgs of fish per 1000 litres of filtration as a general guide so that would weigh all your fish in at about 300grams each if you were to try to get them to plate size you would have issues without extra filtration. hope my christmas jiberish helps :)
     
  4. benwalters

    benwalters Member

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    Hi again , matty has made a good point, no jibberish
    there is a marked variation in PH between your rainwater tank and fish tank water
    to test if aggregate has lime content - take a sample of rock and put in a jar of vinegar, there is supposed to be bubbles that form due to a reaction if limestone is present

    (I hope there isnt a problem with your aggregate)

    I believe silver perch can handle PH 8 but, as matty has said, the ammonia + high Ph +high temp combination can be problematic
    there are charts somewhere on this forum that illustrate when ammonia is toxic under different conditions
    From memory your situation is not too bad now , but if water temp was perhaps 30, more of an issue
    so you do need to lower ammonia or PH (or both)
    perhaps replacing 100-200 ltr water a couple of times a week could help,
    all the best
    ben
     
  5. Fishdood

    Fishdood Member

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    Hi Ben,
    Yeah I have salted to 1ppm and there's a couple of air stone running. The idea was to do dunk salting at 3ppm daily then weekly but some of the ******s excaped the basket......so I tipped them all out. (will fix basket for next time) The ammonia I would think is ok at this stage at less than .25 but I will watch especially with the warm weather.

    Matt, I will test the aggregate with some of water from the RW tank and see what happens. The tests I've done so far seem to indicate the dirt/clay that came with the Agg. Murrays dvd's have been great. Going off what he says about 100 fish to the system on the vid, I was thinking all would be ok on the basis of harvesting as I go....as they grow.

    As I say I am planning already on adding another 900 litres of GB's in the next few months and a shade/hot house in the next few weeks. Feb is the hot one here.

    Thanks for your input. Much appreciated and will keep you up to date. Ben, I get over the coast a bit so maybe give you a call?

    Cheers

    Paul
     
  6. benwalters

    benwalters Member

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  7. Fishdood

    Fishdood Member

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    Thank Ben, charts are helpfull.

    I have just run a few ph tests.
    Rain Water Tank = 6.0
    RW + aggregate & mud = 6.4
    After 2 hours using the same test sample of water =7.8

    Then I washed some selected aggregate stones. Chose different coloured rocks....added to tank water and retested. So...
    RW + aggregate (no mud) = 6.0

    I would conclude it is the mud/clay/dirt...:frown: causing my ph issues.I wish I had washed it first.

    BTW, I had also soaked rocks in vinegar o/night with no bubbles.

    Well what to do next. Wash my leaky sump out, (through the IBC tap) and siphon the bottom of my FT of sediment. Although the affending substance is most likely in the GB's.

    I will also look at adding some iron as I understand this can bring down ph aswell as being what is missing in way of nutrient for plants. What do you think..?

    Paul
     
  8. Fishdood

    Fishdood Member

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  9. MattySEQ

    MattySEQ New Member

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    Heya fishdood I would look at pumping water from your rainwater tank directly in your growbed and get some pipe to angle the flow from your siphon outside the sump, get a shovel and just stirring it up till the water runs clear on the outlet, that should help the situation a little.

    cheers,

    Matty
     
  10. Fishdood

    Fishdood Member

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    Yeah Matty it has crossed my mind.

    Just to follow up on my previous experiment. After waiting another hour or so I got 6.4 on the washed aggregate. So some rise but not much without the mud.

    Now after reading Murrays link on ph adjustment I'll be raiding the neibours lemon tree.

    Oh & ammonia is now 0.0.

    Paul
     
  11. Fishdood

    Fishdood Member

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    PS Matty, may do the growth of plant much good. :)
     
  12. Fishdood

    Fishdood Member

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    Well I've done a wash out of the sump and a partial water change. About 200 - 250 ltrs of the 1400ish total system.
    New water ph of 6.0. At the end of the day system ph now about 7.4.
    Will look at adding lemon juice through this week and another partial change next week. I also added some iron.
     
  13. MattySEQ

    MattySEQ New Member

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    Heya fishdood thats sounding a bit better :) see what the ph is in a few days and if its the same I would leave it alone because it should come down naturally if that lime has been washed out and eventually you'll need to buffer the system up anyhow
     
  14. Fishdood

    Fishdood Member

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    Quick update.
    All water digits are looking good. Ph seems steady...?! Fish going nuts at feed time. Need more poo to feed plants....no nitates build up.....slow plant growth. Have had to put temporary shade up over plants as medium getting too hot. Water got to about 26.5 today. Hopfully get shade house built this week when we all (well everyone else) goes back to work...buy materials.
     

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