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ammonia

Discussion in 'Water Chemistry' started by big pat, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. big pat

    big pat New Member

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    I started fishless cycling about six weeks ago but unfortunately added too much urea.I tried changing the water as yabbie suggested .I changed it 70% a couple of times.I think that yabbie said that i might have to let nature do its work(perhaps using different words) and i have been doing that.
    At last i am seeing some progress

    last time ph 7.4
    ammonia 8.0
    nitrites 5.0
    nitrates 40ppm

    TODAY
    ph 7.8
    ammonia 1.0
    nitrites 0.0
    nitrates 80ppm


    i have read that i have to bring my ammonia levels down to zero before adding fish.Nitrites have been zero for over a week.Will my ammonia levels come down also before i can say the system is cycled and be able to add fish.By the way i have heaps of vegetables and they are growing fantastic.I am just wondering can fish ammonia make much difference.I appreciate all information and i would like to thank yabbies again
     
  2. Murray

    Murray Site Admin Staff Member

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    Add the fish, your system has cycled. The ammonia will drop off in the next few days anyway. Your numbers today are good.
     
  3. Yabbies4me

    Yabbies4me Administrator Staff Member

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    IMO, with the pH at 7.8, and Amm level of 1.0, it's still a bit high Murray. As long as the water temp is in the low teens then the Amm level of 1.0 wouldn't be harmful to your fish bigpat, but if you water temp was 16 deg or higher it could be an issue. Type “Ammonia Toxicity Chart†into the forum search bar and look for the chart, it demonstrates the association between water pH and water temp in relation to Ammonia toxicity.

    Myself, I would be tempted to let the Amm drop a bit further before adding your fish, ideally to 0.0, it should only be a day, two at the outside I would think. Letting it drop to 0.0 before adding the fish will also allow you to more accurately monitor any Amm spike that takes place after the fish have been added.

    IMO, when adding your fish, you should ensure you have at least 25L+ of wet gravel per fish. My current IBC system is running 12 Trout to 320L of expanded clay gravel, but only about 270L of that clay is wet and therefore hosting beneficial bacteria, so that works out to 22.5L of wet gravel per fish... and I am still getting constant low level Amm readings of 0.25, sometimes 0.5 when I really go to town on the feed. In my situation this is manageable and not harmful to my fish due to the pH being around 6.6-6.7 and the water temp around 17 deg… but realistically the system should only have 10 fish… and I definitely wouldn’t run 12 Barramundi for example, due to their high water temp requirements making even low levels of Amm potentially toxic... 10 Barra would be the limit.
     
  4. big pat

    big pat New Member

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    Thanks Murray and Yabbies i will always appreciate sound advice.I have been waiting so long ,getting fish seems exciting.
     
  5. Tracy Holz

    Tracy Holz Member

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    I think Murray and Yabbies are both correct. The amount/size of the fish will matter. If you are adding 10 fingerings - no big deal - 100 fingerings or 10 large fish - might be an issue. Plus some of the ammonia from urea is actually ammonium witch is not harmful to fish unless in an EXTREMELY HIGH numbers as the fish can metabolize or exclude from there system I do not know which it is.
     
  6. Yabbies4me

    Yabbies4me Administrator Staff Member

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    Respectfully… this is not true IMO Tracy… and again IMO, is a careless ideology to be perpetuating. From first hand experience I can tell you that fingerlings, at the size most people purchase their Trout, Barra, Perch fingerlings etc, will eat nearly as much and give off nearly as much Ammonia as a plate sized fish.

    My IBC system was fully cycled when my 12 Trout fingerlings went in a month or two back and as I’ve mentioned, there is 22.5L of wet gravel per fish… from day one I’ve had constant Ammonia levels of 0.25, occasionally 0.5… This morning the Amm level was 0.25… just as it was the day after I initially put them in the system some time back, but some are easily twice the size of what they were back then.

    A young rapidly growing fingerling is much like a growing adolescent person, although they have a smaller body mass, they can eat as much, or even more than a twenty something person whose growth has slowed… and consequently give off just as much waste.

    From personal experience, both through my own systems and having been involved with the establishment and remedying of dozens of systems over the last couple of years or more, my conclusion on safe stocking densities are as follows:

    - 25L+ of wet gravel per fish is required for fast growing fish such as Trout and Barramundi
    - 20L+ of wet gravel per fish for slower growing fish such as Silver perch
    - Always stock fingerlings at a gravel:fish ratio that reflects the FINAL SIZE you anticipate the fish getting to in the system.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
  7. Tracy Holz

    Tracy Holz Member

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    Yabbies - You are right BUT - the amount of feed & type of feed will make the difference - in "general" the smaller the fish the less feed they get - all be it that feed is generally higher in protein though - maybe that's is where the extra ammonia comes from.
     
  8. David Tauti

    David Tauti New Member

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    I


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  9. Ringer

    Ringer Active Member

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    Agreed.
    Use this analogy(sounds terrible but makes the point) ,
    Put 5 x 10kg dogs (100kg total) in an airtight box.
    Now put 2x 25kg dogs (100kg total) in the duplicate box
    The 5x dogs will create CO2 much faster than the 2x larger animals even
    though the total animal mass is this same in both boxes.
    The same things is true for fish as respiration generates lot of the ammonia they release.
    Ammonia created by digestion from both groups would be about the same.
    Hope that helps.
     

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