1. The Practical Aquaponics discussion forum has been in operation for the last 5 years...

    We have enjoyed giving this service free of charge however ongoing increasing financial costs of running this service is making it increasingly difficult. Up until now we have resisted advertising as a means of a revenue stream to help run this forum but it has become inevitable that extra revenue is required to run this forum.

    We have introduced a donate button to help offset the cost of running this forum. It is completely voluntary, but if you would like to donate, all donations would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks Murray..
    Dismiss Notice

Organic certification

Discussion in 'AQUAPONICS MADE EASY interactive discussion forum.' started by Enaz Reklaw, Apr 23, 2015.

  1. Enaz Reklaw

    Enaz Reklaw New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2014
    Messages:
    14
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Queensland
    City:
    Murgon
    Is there anyone aware of a producer who has gained Organic Certification in Australia for an Aquaponics Unit and if so who was the Certifying Group/Agent and what Certification was given ?
     
  2. denandbil

    denandbil Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    241
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Victoria
    City:
    Grovedale
    Hi Enaz,

    I believe that at this time, AP can not be certified organic in Australia. I'm not sure of the reasons why.

    Wicking beds can be certified organic, even if AP water is used in the bed! It doesn't make logical sense and the person I spoke to was going to send more info, but hasn't.
     
  3. Enaz Reklaw

    Enaz Reklaw New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2014
    Messages:
    14
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Queensland
    City:
    Murgon
    As I understand it the USDA
     
  4. Enaz Reklaw

    Enaz Reklaw New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2014
    Messages:
    14
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Queensland
    City:
    Murgon
    As I understand it the USDA ( United States Department of Agriculture ) has granted Organic certification to a number of AP facilities through out the US ,and there appears to be several certifying agencies in Australia that are able to issue USDA Organic Certification (although this is primarily aimed at Primary Producers looking to export organic produce to the US.
    Why then is it beyond them to certify an AP facility here if all of the guidelines and criteria that the USDA have laid down are followed .I would welcome any form of Certification even if it was not specifically recognized in Australia . As I believe this could start the ball rolling to get some form of recognisable certification for AP produce in Australia
    After inquiring with several of these certifying agencies it all seems to be in the too hard basket for these people .
     
  5. Enaz Reklaw

    Enaz Reklaw New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2014
    Messages:
    14
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Queensland
    City:
    Murgon
    A Question for Murray: has the Aquaponics Association of Australia made any moves to having any form of Organic Certification done within Australia ?
     
  6. Danscraft

    Danscraft VIP Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    406
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    South East Victoria
    City:
    Frankston
    Just 2 cents... Please excuse any cynicism. What is a certification?
    Have we as people lost so much sense of perception and judgment that we have to
    design some kind of template designed by who??? that then says, yeah, your food is OK.
    Most of the population still eats synthetic fertilized, chemically treated, possibly contaminated produce by the millions of tonnes.
    Then there is this extreme scrutiny to food that is grown more organically?

    Mind boggling really.:confused:
     
  7. bcasey2703

    bcasey2703 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Messages:
    101
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Queensland
    City:
    Harrisville
    It's good to have from a selling point of view, regardless of any truisms


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. Enaz Reklaw

    Enaz Reklaw New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2014
    Messages:
    14
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Queensland
    City:
    Murgon
    Danscraft, I agree with you entirely but the fact that we have use by dates on everything that moves really tells all . If you are unable to tell when your milk or bread is inedible then where have we gone wrong ? The start of use by or best before dates was purely a move by food processors and manufacturers to promote sales - "throw it away and buy more " it was not law or regulated in any way but with lobbying and pressure from a variety of other very interested parties it was eventually made compulsory on all items. Around the same era the local councils and all and sundry swooped on school cake stalls and markets etc to make all concerned list all of the ingredients of every thing that had been made. And on it goes.......!!!
    So it seems that all of the precious little darlings that want to be assured that all of their food is politically correct look for and want to be assured that someone has said that what they are buying is Organic, me ....I;ll take the premium price on Organic produce all day every day.
     
  9. Danscraft

    Danscraft VIP Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    406
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    South East Victoria
    City:
    Frankston
    Its strange though. I never see Organic Certified food. Other than the odd hard to find product on the shelf.
    I guess what I'm thinking, or advocating is the best organic food you can possibly get is picked straight from your own grown.
    That could also be the best for the overall environment as well perhaps.
     
  10. Danscraft

    Danscraft VIP Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    406
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    South East Victoria
    City:
    Frankston
    Just to add to that. Because I think this is a can of worms that needs attention by every person.
    Visual perception and having a clue is what people need to adapt too. For example, some of the best foods that can be bought will be more organically grown but they may seem imperfect in a visual sense and the shelf life is much! shorter.
    As soon as something is picked it is deteriorating. If the demand is to have perfect looking produce that lasts for months or longer on the shelf or cool storage then you cant expect good nutrition or flavor to come with it, (and expect a load of inorganic chemical science as well)
    So the ignoramus that has a go at fresh healthy food will not find any satisfaction at all, and probably consume many inorganic elements as well. That is the greatest challenge on this topic in my observation anyway.
    The mass delivering supermarkets don't have anything really good etc and smaller suppliers can have better, more Organic produce but when it comes to this extreme scrutiny of looks and to get an Organic Certificate then its all too hard. The true supplier will stay small and humble and that's not a bad thing either.

    Its a mindset that should be common sense but is not.

    $0.02
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2015
  11. Murray

    Murray Site Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    7,638
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Queensland
    City:
    Brisbane
    Hi, The Aquaponics Association of Australia needs to be awakened. There is much to be done in that regard. There is no reason why an Aquaponics farm cannot be USDA Organic certified. There are plenty of AP farms getting USDA certification in the US right now and one we are involved with in Hong Kong.
    It is true that "Organic" is more about what you can't do as a grower, not what is actually good practice.
    I feel, long term, we would be better to promote "Aquaponically Grown" as a label.
     
  12. Dagger564

    Dagger564 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2015
    Messages:
    10
    Country:
    USA
    State:
    Missouri
    City:
    Smithville
    Conventional Farming isent all that bad there's nonthing wrong with the current food supply. You could say the same thing about ap food that it's grown in poop and chemically treated.
     
  13. Murray

    Murray Site Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    7,638
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Queensland
    City:
    Brisbane
    AP food chemically treated????
    Where does that come from?
     
  14. Dagger564

    Dagger564 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2015
    Messages:
    10
    Country:
    USA
    State:
    Missouri
    City:
    Smithville
    Well people use acids and alkaline chemicals to change ph and some use pesticides that don't harm the fish. Obviously it's not as chemically treated as conventional but you also gotta look at what we're feeding the fish. Pelletized fish food isn't really natural and they fertilize our plants the same way manure fertilizes a crop field. Is it healthier than store bought? It's debatable however I believe that home grown food is better regardless.
     
  15. Danscraft

    Danscraft VIP Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    406
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    South East Victoria
    City:
    Frankston
    It is all science and chemistry yes. Poison! is bad. Science has worked that out too.
    Organic chemistry has proven itself over billions of years before our human scientific labs.
    We are in a teething process. Stop using poison!
    Modern science overindulged itself thinking we can do better than nature because we can isolate chemical structures.
    Thats all good too because we can also isolate chemicals that are not poison as well.
    Then these days its more and more realizing that we lost touch with the superior values that nature has been doing for billions of years etc. Balance in Organics
    I'm an Advocate of this kind of thought and its something anyone can do without certifications.
    Something everyone should be doing habitually but we lost touch.
    $0.02
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
  16. Murray

    Murray Site Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    7,638
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    Queensland
    City:
    Brisbane
    So right Danscraft,
    Trouble is we have been trained to believe we have to have certificates for almost everything otherwise......
    Certification is a good way to set standards. Standards for food production and delivery is not a bad thing. Perhaps the implementation and some of the silly rules around Organic certification need to be looked at.
    Someone commented; Organic certification is mostly about what you can't do. It should be about what you can do. Strong guidelines around the use of natural processes and outcomes would be far better one would think, rather than 100 + pages on what you can't do.

    I am often amused at the good old PHD certificate. A bloke or lassie pops up calling themselves Dr..... I asked one such Dr dude what his Dr dissertation was all about. Turned out he had worked out the ideal size of a school classroom......ground breaking stuff......After all that research into the size of a classroom he is now well equipped to work out the ideal size of a flower pot...:D
     
  17. Danscraft

    Danscraft VIP Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    406
    Country:
    Australia
    State:
    South East Victoria
    City:
    Frankston
    Its mind boggling to how we have become so mind boggled to something that was simple habit.
    Produce your own food. Its really quite simple.

    Even if you live in a high rise building pigeon hole there is now developing opportunities
    to get into this gardening stuff.
     
  18. João Jesus

    João Jesus New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    Messages:
    4
    Country:
    Portugal
    State:
    Porto
    City:
    Porto
    In Europe we can't get a AP organically certified because of lack of soil. That is the reason that is used, maybe is similar in Australia (?)
     
  19. Robert123

    Robert123 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    858
    Country:
    USA
    State:
    South Carolina
    City:
    Woodruff
    Jesus is correct. According to the 2014 CCOF International Standard Program Manual, Hydroponic and Aeroponic operations are prohibited forms of production or organic foods. This stems from EEC889/2008 Article 4 which states: "Organic plant production is based on nourishing the plants primarily through the soil ecosystem."

    Until the word "soil" is removed from the definition, AP cannot be internationally recognized as "organic". That's why the wicking beds CAN sneak past that test. I think this current definition is somewhat ignorant and closed minded, but I really don't see it being changed as the organizational leaders have no vested interest in updating the classification. (i.e. read that as "there isn't enough money in it for them yet to move")

    I agree with Murray, rather than trying to get Organic to accept AP, perhaps AP needs to establish it's own code and use the term "Aquaponically Grown" or "AP Organically Grown" or something like that.
     
  20. Dagger564

    Dagger564 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2015
    Messages:
    10
    Country:
    USA
    State:
    Missouri
    City:
    Smithville
    I would much rather aquaponically grown instead of organically grown. The term organic has been misused alot recently.
     

Share This Page